Kieth Olbermann on Prop 8

[DeliaTS]

YouTube - MSNBC Keith Olbermann on Prop 8, Marriage and more!

[Jim Beaux]

Very interesting.

I've seen a lot of critiques about what happened to get such a vote. http://www.alternet.org/election08/107474/why_prop_8_passed_in_california:_the_myth_of_the_b lack_gay_divide/
The link is perhaps the best 'analysis', but I felt it missed the point.

White voters were very narrowly in favour of gay marriage, latino moderately against, black very strongly against.

Even if the vote had gone the other way by a 52-48 margin, I wouldn't have seen it as a victory.

It's about hearts and minds, as your video link makes clear. None of the racial groups showed any clear support. The effort needed is to persuade those hearts and minds.

[Ecstatic]

That was a powerful statement, Delia. Thanks for posting it. It is my conviction that civil rights should never be subject to a popular vote, and most certainly not to a simple majority. The fundamental principle of civil rights is to protect a minority from oppression by the majority. It doesn't matter whether you're talking Jews, blacks, gypsies, gays or any other group (and, by 2050, white Americans!). The way Keith Olbermann framed this in his statement (simply, do not extinguish the light of others) is very moving. I understand that the California supreme court will be hearing the challenge to the vote as being unconstitutional, and I deeply hope that they find it so.

[Trogdor]

Ironic how the racial groups were against it.

Kinda like how the pilrgims left England to escape religious persecution, yet shortly after the arrived, they started burning witches and would-be witches. :p

[flombago]

It was a good video and I agree with it. I think this is one of those thorny issues like the civil rights movement, women's suffrage, and the abolition of slavery that will turn around in a few more years of arguing about it. People have to shake off their old and wrong way of thinking about the issue. Hopefully not too many years.

It's an interesting question whether the courts should defend civil rights or should it be left up to the majority. On average I'd expect Supreme Court judges to be a lot wiser than the average Joe on these issues.

[flabbybody]

it's disturbing and ironic that American Black culture seems to have such an issue with gay rights.
and on a glorious historical day when our nation elected it's first non- Caucasian president the people of Cali put a damper on things by taking a step back towards intolerance

[Jim Beaux]

God Bless America is on television tonight, with the following write-up.

"In the afterglow of Barack Obama's historic victory in the US election, this film looks at the future of America's Religious Right and analyses the impact that their voting patterns may have on the future of American politics. It outlines how Conservative white evangelical Christians provided President George W Bush's margin of victory in 2004. One quarter of the US population, they gave Bush 78 per cent of their votes."

[DeliaTS]

God Bless America is on television tonight, with the following write-up.

"In the afterglow of Barack Obama's historic victory in the US election, this film looks at the future of America's Religious Right and analyses the impact that their voting patterns may have on the future of American politics. It outlines how Conservative white evangelical Christians provided President George W Bush's margin of victory in 2004. One quarter of the US population, they gave Bush 78 per cent of their votes."

Jimmy Carter has written quite a bit on the blurring of the line between church and state, government and religion here in the US. Specifically in regards to conservative evangelicals. As a white southern evangelical himself he has a pretty unique perspective. Here's an interview with him from a few years ago: http://www.eauk.org/resources/idea/NovDec2006/the-power-of-unity.cfm

[Jim Beaux]

Jimmy Carter has written quite a bit on the blurring of the line between church and state, government and religion here in the US. Specifically in regards to conservative evangelicals. As a white southern evangelical himself he has a pretty unique perspective. Here's an interview with him from a few years ago: http://www.eauk.org/resources/idea/NovDec2006/the-power-of-unity.cfm

Thanks for the link, Delia. Apart from being very interesting and informative, it helped me make some sense out of the TV programme, which until then I'd found quite confusing.

[flombago]

Here's another analysis taken from The New Yorker
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27887428

Especially chilling is the quote from New Gingrich: "Look, I think there is a gay and secular fascism in this country that wants to impose its will on the rest of us, is prepared to use violence ... I think that it is a very dangerous threat to anybody who believes in traditional religion." And he goes on to say that this is because such gay, secular, fascist values are "the opposite of what you're taught in Sunday school."

Talk about brain-washed !

But the article is hopeful. It points out that while over-65 year olds oppose gay marriage by a 30 point margin, those under-35 favor it by 13 points. Time marches on ...

[Ecstatic]

I just *love* the claims of these oh-so-righteous people that "traditional" religion opposes same sex marriage. Only those religions which these people accept are accorded with the status of "traditional" religions. Yet a great many religions do indeed accept and support same sex marriage, either universally or as a matter of personal belief: Buddhism, Taoism, Reform Judaism, the UCC (United Church of Christ), Unitarianism, the Society of Friends, and Wicca, to name a few. All are "traditional" (Wiccan roots trace back thousands of years, and Buddhism predates Christianity by 500 years).

In a country predicated, in part, on the separation of church and state and the self-evident truth of liberty for all, there is no place for such civil rights violation in the name of any religion outside the actual worship community of that religion.

[kalina]

I just watched this and it's the first time in a long time I've actually been moved by a newsreporter. Great piece!