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View Full Version : Fags = Old World -> New World -> Old World


Jim Beaux
04-22-2008, 10:31 AM
A TV programme in the UK called Time Team does archaeology digs, and has just run 2 specials over the last 2 days.

The first was Jamestown, Virginia. Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement in what would become the US. It was 400 years old last May and for about 90 years was the capital of Virginia.

The (American) team digging Jamestown found it started as a triangular fort enclosing a very special type of house. That type of house existed, and still exists, in only one other location in the world, East Lincolnshire in England. Which is where most of the original settlers came from, and where the single carpenter, who must have built the houses in Jamestown, also came from.

Jamestown was founded in May, 1607, and by the middle of summer half of the original settlers were dead, mainly due to drinking polluted water.

What tipped the balance and made the US? A pipemaker found clay in Virginia that was ideal for making pipes, then in short supply in England, and started exporting pipes to Britain. More importantly, someone took some West Indies seeds to Virginia, planted them, and found that Virginia was ideal for growing tobacco, and the colony flourished.

Thus the US got English language, English law and a bundle of English heritage. And we got fags.

You can see other things resulting, can't you? That tobacco crop is going to need a lot of hard, physical toil to flourish. Where's that going to come from?

Jim Beaux
04-22-2008, 10:51 AM
The second programme was about Liverpool of 300 years ago. Then it was a very small town on the Mersey. The river was difficult to navigate due to a combination of mudflats and a tide that that made loading and unloading very difficult.

The New World (that's you lot) was powering ahead and the obvious place for a port was on the west side of England, to get your (or should I say our?) cotton into the mills in central England. But Liverpool languished and other ports were more successful.

Liverpool then went ahead and built one of the earliest brick built docks in Europe. With doors based on simple canal technology, the docks meant ships stayed at the same height throughout and loading and unloading and never stopped for the tide. And Liverpool sky-rocketed.

3 centuries later and Liverpool was getting tatty. So they did a huge renovation, which is when the original brick docks were excavated. And the new dockside became a Unesco world heritage site.

And Liverpool is the 2008 European City of Culture.

Old World -> New World -> Old World. Tobacco. Cotton.
The US is English, not French or Spanish.
Liverpool is a world heritage site. :p

Here's the Three Graces, Liverpool.

Ecstatic
04-22-2008, 07:01 PM
You forgot the other important event in Liverpool 300 years later: the appearance of the Beatles and the Mersey Beat. :)

deepblue
04-22-2008, 08:40 PM
You forgot the other important event in Liverpool 300 years later: the appearance of the Beatles and the Mersey Beat. :)

Don't forget Jelly Babies. But seriously, that sounds like a show I can geek out on. I'll have to see if I can get my mitts on it, since I don't get The Beeb anymore. Thanks for the heads up!

"ahhhh, lovely fags..." (and if anyone can tell me where that quote's from, you rock - no cheating)

Ecstatic
04-22-2008, 08:57 PM
I do well remember a sign posted outside a pub somewhere in the Cotswolds next to a bucket of sand: "Please extinguish all fags." Two nations separated by a common language, indeed.

DeliaTS
04-23-2008, 03:03 AM
Right, the tabacco crop brought the need for slaves whose "call and response" while working in the feilds became the foundation of the blues which eventually made it back to Europe and influenced 4 lads in Liverpool who eventually took their sound to the States which in turned changed the face of rock-n-roll as we know it today.

3rd world > new world > old world > new world > Wayne's world!!! Wayne's world!!! Party on! Excellent!

seanchai
04-23-2008, 06:07 AM
Liverpool was also the port for slavery in the UK for quite some time.

Does Baldrick still run the Time Team show?

Jim Beaux
04-23-2008, 09:54 AM
Does Baldrick still run the Time Team show?

He does.

Ecstatic
04-23-2008, 01:53 PM
Right, the tabacco crop brought the need for slaves whose "call and response" while working in the feilds became the foundation of the blues which eventually made it back to Europe and influenced 4 lads in Liverpool who eventually took their sound to the States which in turned changed the face of rock-n-roll as we know it today.

3rd world > new world > old world > new world > Wayne's world!!! Wayne's world!!! Party on! Excellent!

Great summary, Delia!

deepblue
04-23-2008, 10:25 PM
Liverpool was also the port for slavery in the UK for quite some time.

That part I didn't know. You learn new things every day!

Jordan
04-23-2008, 10:29 PM
I do well remember a sign posted outside a pub somewhere in the Cotswolds next to a bucket of sand: "Please extinguish all fags." Two nations separated by a common language, indeed.

LMFAO, I love it!! Although it's talking about cigarettes