What does recession or depression mean for sex workers?

[Mandy M]

Last night I woke up suddenly from a nightmare, I looked out my living room window (I've been sleeping on a futon with my lover next to the woodstove because of an ice storm) and watched the eerie incandescence of an exploding transformer (an unusual site in the woods to be sure). Anyways, I dreamed that overnight the dollar had collapsed, much like the riat and baht did in the 90's when the Asian Panic occured. I was sitting in a room with my closest hooker/stripper friends discussing our prospects. Perhaps the first nightmare of my life that had to do with international finance. I looked over and my lover was watching the snow fall, and we started talking about things. For the next 2 and a half hours we discussed our future, and the prospect of serious economic recession in this country, and how that would affect us with our primary income coming from sex work.

I'm curious if anyone knows of studies, or has firsthand knowledge of how the economic catastrophes of the 90's affected the sex industry in Asia?

Also curious what peoples opinions are on current economic woe. I know that my income is entirely derived from luxury spending, and when it comes down to porn/escorts vs. food I will most likely lose.

Anyone else worried about this?

The power is finally back on, which is great because it was a drag not being able to take a shower (my well is electric) or cook food (electric stove)..

Xoxo
Mandy

[maggiegee]

Men wll always avail themselves of the services of escorts, in the best of
times, or in the worst of times.

However they may cut back on the number of outings they have per week,
month, etc.

They also may seek lower cost escorts, or want to haggle over prices.

But death, taxes, and the need for sex, are a certainty.

[DeliaTS]

But death, taxes, and the need for sex, are a certainty.

Well put. I think we are in a pretty good industry comparatively. The nice thing about having a web based porn business is that your customers come from all over the world so you aren't as dependent on the local economy. Though most of my members are here in the States I do have quite a few from Canada, Europe, South America, Australia, even a few in Japan. But I think sex and pornography are a form of escape for many and when times are tough having an hour or two away from it all can actually be worth a lot more.

[Mandy M]

Men wll always avail themselves of the services of escorts, in the best of
times, or in the worst of times.

However they may cut back on the number of outings they have per week,
month, etc.

They also may seek lower cost escorts, or want to haggle over prices.

But death, taxes, and the need for sex, are a certainty.

Of course with any sort of serious economic downturn the market would be so flooded with people desperate to make ends meet that providers who currently make their living in the sex trade would be driven to seeing many more clients, providing riskier services, and facing more pressure from LE for bribes and kickbacks.

On the positive end of things, less men would be getting married because they would be unable to support a family, so in that regard demand would probably increase.

As for porn, same thing applies. Women who previously found well paying jobs elsewhere would flood the market, and the competition would probably destroy our earning power.

But this is all speculation, just wondering if anyone has read or knows firsthand of studies or information regarding the lives of sex-workers after or during economic crisis? I know this is kind of a graduate thesis topic for study, but I do worry, and would love to know how existing sex workers have survived and thrived during hard times (without exploiting fellow sex workers who are even more desperate).

thanks for the input maggie and Delia. P.S. Delia, I should be coming up to Seattle sometime in the next couple of weeks for work, lets get together, maybe collaborate?

[DeliaTS]

I would love to get together. Let me know when you're heading this way. My schedule has been pretty wacky lately but hopefully we can work something out.

[rvince]

I'm curious if anyone knows of studies, or has firsthand knowledge of how the economic catastrophes of the 90's affected the sex industry in Asia?


I don't have specific stats/studies on the 90s in Asia, but in Europe, the "sex entertainment" market was often the only market that continued to have a growth doing ressession periods.
If the USD collapses, as a US escort, the only thing you'd see is that buying imported goods would become much more expensive, but it shouldn't impact your business directly.
On the other hand, the slow fall of the USD->EUR conversion ratio is already affecting european webmasters doing most of their business in the USA.

Compared to 2003 when I started in the adult business, I'm making 30% less in euros for the same income in USD...

[Mandy M]

I don't have specific stats/studies on the 90s in Asia, but in Europe, the "sex entertainment" market was often the only market that continued to have a growth doing ressession periods.
If the USD collapses, as a US escort, the only thing you'd see is that buying imported goods would become much more expensive, but it shouldn't impact your business directly.
On the other hand, the slow fall of the USD->EUR conversion ratio is already affecting european webmasters doing most of their business in the USA.

Compared to 2003 when I started in the adult business, I'm making 30% less in euros for the same income in USD...

So does this mean I should charge my European customers and visitors to my website %30 more?

[rvince]

So does this mean I should charge my European customers and visitors to my website %30 more?

in case you're wondering CCBill is currently implementing this feature (pricing geotargetting) shoulb be out of beta in a few weeks
:-D

[Mandy M]

Gosh those people at CCBill are smart, at least they earn the money they take from us.;)

[BeardedOne]

Speaking both from opinion (Shot in the dark assumptions) and experience (Primarily as a client, but also partly as a jobber/producer) I'd think that your income wouldn't change all that much and, quite possibly could increase in times of recession/depression. Though certainly subject to things such as the aforementioned exchange rates.

Speaking as a client: While my finances have been tight in recent months (Due to everything from rising interest rates, to a counterfeiter in Benin, Africa, to a booby-trapped will that lingers, uncontested, on some liar's...er...lawyer's desk), I have somehow managed to find the occasional coin to meet up with a gurl of interest. At this very moment, with a shutoff notice on my desk (I pay the electric bill at the last possible moment these days, before they pull the plug), I am digging through the sofa cushions for loose change (OK, that's a lie, I don't have a sofa, but it presents the appropriate image) in hopes that I might treat myself to some upbeat moment (Found on Eros) for the fiftieth anniversary of my residence on this dirtball we call home.

=DON'T= say "Happy Birthday", as it will fall on deaf ears.

The point is, that especially at times of stress and depression, people (Men in particular) will seek solace in the arms/bed of another. I can't say for sure if it is directly related to 'popping a nut' as I, for one, seem to be just as wound down/relaxed just by the company (There is at least one person on this forum that can attest to the fact that while we didn't 'knock boots', as it were, I was just as happy to be with them).

From a provider/producer standpoint: I found it very interesting that our internet revenues spiked during the recent woe-is-me reports from the doomsayers of Wall Street. At the moment, this is only a one-time thing, but I check our revenues/referrals on a daily basis and make note of when/where they go up or down. It's a sure bet that I'm going to watch this pattern (If it proves out) with wide eyes.

Death, taxes, booze, drugs, tobacco, sex. Some things in life are certain.

I looked out my living room window (I've been sleeping on a futon with my lover next to the woodstove because of an ice storm) and watched the eerie incandescence of an exploding transformer (an unusual site in the woods to be sure).

Ooh, we had a box explode during the ice storm last year. Lit the entire town like daylight for a couple of minnits. Pretty...until the lights, phone, heat, water, etc. cave and you are left in the dark with a neurotic cat and no way to flush the toilet. :(

[Mandy M]

Ooh, we had a box explode during the ice storm last year. Lit the entire town like daylight for a couple of minnits. Pretty...until the lights, phone, heat, water, etc. cave and you are left in the dark with a neurotic cat and no way to flush the toilet. :(

Lucky for me I had plenty of firewood, and plenty of snow to fill up buckets with, sat the buckets on the woodstove, voila, grey-water flush.

[victoriajaye]

cool thread. i think the internet stuff is secure because of a global economy...however girls who are working as providers could feel a pinch as local areas tighten...

[justatransgirl]

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[Mandy M]

Well as provider I haven't seen much difference so far. But I'm low volume and most of the guys I date these days are from out of town, so our dates are planned ahead.

I guess in a general catastrophe we'd all be back out on the blvd shaking it for twenty bucks a pop.

Personally I think I'd just take Jessica and move up to the mountains next door to you Mandy - as the song goes... give me a shotgun, a rifle, and a 4 wheel drive, and this country "BoyGirl" can survive...

Giggle,
TS Jamie :-)

You know theres a book about that, written by one of my favorite authors, Octavia Butler, its called parable of the transsexual hooker. It's about a TS in San Diego that leaves her gated community and walks through the post-apocalyptic nightmare that is California after the economy collapses during a terrible corporate/facist presidency all the way to the promised land of Oregon. I highly recommend it. Ok, its actually called Parable of the Sower, but if you want to discover the joys of insomnia read it before bed.

Yeah, if shit falls to pieces, come on up, I have my own well with delicious water, and plenty of deer.

[justatransgirl]

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[Mandy M]

well Jamie, I am planning on touring with her once she finishes her last two weeks at work, so after Valentines day we will probably head down to Cali, starting with a friends plot of land outside of Arcata, then a week or two in SF, maybe some time in LA, who knows, I haven't been to San Diego in like, 10 years since I saw a ska show there in the mid 90's. Is the Che cafe still around? Not your type of place probably, anyways.

At the very least maybe we can make a movie, or do a 4 girl session with some very lucky dude.

xoxo
Mandy

[Danny Partridge]

I'm not clear as to why the question is about the sex industry in Asia, and I'm not nearly as familiar with it over there as here, so I'll stick with what I know. I've been involved in sex work in the US for over 3 decades, so I've seen a few full economic cycles.

There are some things which people assume would happen which don't. For example, people think that in an economic downturn, lots of women will turn to sex work and the market will be flooded with supply siders. This has not happened. I think I know the reason why: most women don't wake up one day and say "I think I'll become a sex worker". Aside from younger women who are in some way forced or coerced into the life (runaways, trafficked) - and BTW I don't think that number would change in an economic downturn, most women get lured in by the thought of easy money. For an awful lot, there is a situation where they need some extra cash and someone offers them a LOT of money for their first time. But that happens LESS in economic downturns, not more. When there's less money to be made off of sex work, it becomes LESS attractive for women who aren't already sex workers to become sex workers, because the single biggest lure is fast, easy money. No fast, easy money, no lure.

On the demand side, remember that the dollars spent come from disposable income (actually discretionary income, but that's an economists semantic). Essentially what this means is what's left over after all your fixed expenses like rent, mortgage payments, health insurances, food, etc. Well, if someone's income goes down, their disposable income goes down more. Let's say you take home $50,000 a year after taxes. Your fixed expenses are $35,000 so your disposable income is $15,000. If your full income goes down 20%, you now have $40,000 take home. That leaves your disposable income at only $5,000. So even though your income fell by 20%, your disposable income fell by 67% !!!!!

Well, if disposable income is essentially what pays for "sin" spending, a big drop in disposable income yields a big drop in the amount spent on sin. Some guys cut back on the number of times they see sex workers. But most look for cheaper venues. Like guys who were seeing $200/hr girls and making fun of guys who went to "fast houses" for $50 are all of a sudden asking where to find the fast houses. Guys who were using $1200 agencies are now looking for $350 independents. And a whole segment stop altogether: there are rather large groups of guys who have always used one source of income to fund their sex spending. A lot use stock market profits. The last time the stock market crashed, you all of a sudden saw a whole bunch of guys who had been big posters/players on the prostitution message boards disappear altogether.

So, in general, while the total amount of visits to sex workers doesn't decrease dramatically, which makes people think the sex business is immune to recession, what does happen is the total dollars spent on it decrease. If the total dollars spent decrease, and the number on the supply side doesn't also decrease, it means less money for the average sex worker. What also happens is if some independent low volume sex worker has some of their best clients have sharp drops in their disposable income, they may have a large drop off in income, while at the same time another worker who you would think of as "equivalent" doesn't experience any decrease simply because of the luck of the draw has it that their clients weren't as affected by the current economic climate. This often happens because low volume independents get lots of business from referrals, and the referred clients tend to be in the same economic boat as the referring clients.

[Danny Partridge]

What you also see is change in limits for various types of places. Strip clubs which were "clean" start allowing extras. Girls who were safety girls start loosening up their standards. Screening of customers gets looser. Time gets more liberal ("an hour" gets longer). Sex workers try harder to keep their regulars than before and offer "more".

None of these things "shows up" in an economic study, but they are still the results of the downturn.

[Danny Partridge]

What I will say about the current economic climate and the sex business is that the weak dollar is changing some things. A lot of New Englanders (including NY, NJ, etc.) would travel to Montreal to see better quality girls for lower dollars than the US (partly because it's legal there for most intents and purposes), and now that the dollar is so much weaker, a lot less of those trips are being made.

Same with the Dominican Republic: with the current exchange rates, a lot of guys who'd been going to the DR for sex vacations for decades are now going to other countries. I don't know if this is the same with Thailand since I'm not all that familiar with the scene there.

[Mandy M]

Danny thanks for that response, that was what I was trying to figure out, it makes sense to me, I'm just too young to have any firsthand experience.

The reason I asked about Asia, was A. because the economic crisis of the 90's was vast and saw the wealth of supposed model economies crumble and B. because the TS sex industry has tons of girls from South Asia. Cultural factors aside, I was wondering if there was a correlation. Perhaps not.

As to impoverished women turning to prostitution, I suppose that happens in extreme cases like Baghdad right now, but short of absolute catastrophe you are probably right.

The repeated assertion that independents or high dollar girls would make out better, just didn't make sense to me, and I appreciate the analysis.

Now I suppose the real question, for working girls is how do we prepare for high inflation and loss of business, though I suppose that is a question we should all be asking ourselves right about now.

[HappyChris]

Hmm an idea for my Doctoral thesis

[victoriajaye]

thanks for the input danny! mandythats a good question...how does one prepare? there are a multitude of ways i suppose...like danny mentioned some girls do more for customer services...people can do like your doing and create their ownseconday revenue stream with a web site...(hmmm note too self--web site) and if one has other skill sets, those could be put to use as well.

<-----just lookin to retire early... :)

[Ecstatic]

Great info and details, Danny. Thanks for that.

One rather large factor to consider is the general economic power base shift to Asia in the first half of the 21st Century. Economic trends show that Asia will produce 60% of all products by 2025. China and India are rising far more rapidly than predicted even 10 years ago, and there's talk between some members of the UN Security Council (notably France, Germany, the US) about opening the SC to include India and China. Europe's total economic clout has fallen off significantly, as has the US's. With this shift eastward, I imagine we'll also see changes in the Asian sex market, and those may well be underway already (in fact, Asian escorts now advertise online for the same rates as US escorts--$300/hour not being uncommon--although I don't know how that plays out in actuality).

[TJT]

Go to where the money is.

If you work in the States,the oil industry is booming. Houston would be a good base of operations for the Gulf fields as would be the rebuilt parts of NOLA.

LA and NYC will always be good. Folks want entertainment when the economy goes in the crapper. That's where they produce the stuff.

Washington/Baltimore due to the government being based there. There's always going to politicians and bureaucrats away from home with money and nothing to do.

[Danny Partridge]

As far as going where the money is and NYC, did you see the City dropped their estimate of Wall Street earnings in the new budget from like $17 Billion to like $3 billion? That's a lot of sex workers that aren't going to make bank off of Wallstreeters in NYC.

[justatransgirl]

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[Danny Partridge]

So your alternative is going to be selling hot dogs?