Interesting UFO vid

[Trogdor]

Being big on UFO's and ET's, I figuered, let's discuss about some of it, like this video for example.

:arrow:YouTube - UFO SPACESHIP TWO ALIENS (TURKEY) UFO İÇİNDEKİ UZAYLILAR

Yay or nay?

I am hard pressed here.....the constant shaking of the camera, and the time records and wind is a bit odd, but the vessel in question is interesting. And the fact it made news in some big Russian magazines and newspapers add to it.

Let's disect this video and go over it, shall we? And both sides can discuss it, just be civil, mmmkay? :)

And post any vids and pics on this stuff too. This could be a good and stimulating thread.

[Jordan]

That was interesting, I believe in Ufo's etc, I mean it would be kind of arrogant for us to think/believe that we are the only ones in the universe.

[Trogdor]

That was interesting, I believe in Ufo's etc, I mean it would be kind of arrogant for us to think/believe that we are the only ones in the universe.

unfortunately, most people roll their eyes on this sorta topic because:

1: The mainstream media rarely ever goes over such a topic, and then they do, it's treated as "cute", and often the case, laughable. They pretty tell us to treat it like a movie of the week and forget it the next day.

2: The god damned Brookings Report ( google it for more detail ) that pile of shit Nasa did in it's founding days is the reason we get all these smeggin' coverups. I mean if Italy, France and especially Japan are open and actually have their UFO informations made open to the public, why not Yanke Land?

[Jordan]

unfortunately, most people roll their eyes on this sorta topic because:

1: The mainstream media rarely ever goes over such a topic, and then they do, it's treated as "cute", and often the case, laughable. They pretty tell us to treat it like a movie of the week and forget it the next day.

2: The god damned Brookings Report ( google it for more detail ) that pile of shit Nasa did in it's founding days is the reason we get all these smeggin' coverups. I mean if Italy, France and especially Japan are open and actually have their UFO informations made open to the public, why not Yanke Land?

LOL I think if the American people really knew what went on, we would try to overthrow the govt, but your right it should be public record.

[Trogdor]

LOL I think if the American people really knew what went on, we would try to overthrow the govt, but your right it should be public record.

Here's 2 articles on the secrecy of our government when it comes to alien life.

http://www.cseti.org/position/greer/disclosureserves.htm

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc97.htm

Sad how the many are deceaved by the few. And how they want to keep us in the dark ages, until disclosure benefits them.

I think the best disclouse would be like in Star Trek First Contact....the aliens themselves informing us. Cause think about this....our government wants to to keep us in the dark, and will only tell us when it benefits them, yet I think the aliens want us to know about them, why else are they having their starships appearing for us to see, and getting chased by millitary/covert vehicles?

And if overthrowing a government is the way to fix the problems, I'm all for it. I mean that's how places like China, Cuba and middle east outta solve their problems. And remember, WE are the bosses of America, not those politcal and industrial whores taking the tax money......we are their bosses, not vice versa.....and I just wonder how many people would gasp in shock from such a revelation if I said this out loud to a bunch of people. I think it's about time people actually start caring for alot more than just beer, smokes, American Idol, Anna Nicolle Smith, and SUV's.

And if you ask me, crap films like ID4 and Men in Black actually make government coverups look like good things....or least try to, for the dumb ass joe 6-packs and plain janes out there.

[Ecstatic]

I totally believe that "we are not alone" and think it incredibly self-centered and egotistical of mankind to presume that we are unique in the cosmos. Given the vast size of the universe (not to mention multiverse), I envision millions if not billions of advanced lifeforms on other worlds, some far more advanced than we are.

However, I find it highly doubtful that any of those beings would visit us a) because of the sheer implausibility of FTL travel and the simple fact that it would take 30,000 years at light speed for us to even reach the center of our galaxy, and b) I can't imagine why an advanced civilization would care about us way out here in one of the outlier spiral arms of this rather average galaxy.

What I think will eventually occur is some exchange of knowledge via some type of sublight or close to lightspeed transmission of information. We will detect other civilizations, and they will detect us, and we and they will transmit data to one another, which may take 10's of 1000's of years to transmit but which will extend our knowledge immensely. But doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.

[flombago]

I envision millions if not billions of advanced lifeforms on other worlds.

You're starting to sound like Carl Sagan. But that's a good thing.

I agree there's probably something out there, but it's probably quite different from life on earth. The ingredients of life (IMHO): A local increase in order (i.e. decrease in entropy) fueled by an abundant nearby energy source (e.g. the Sun). No problem with that happening somewhere else in the universe ! In our case the order is imposed by digital information (DNA) which regulates metabolism.

A complex, intertwining chain of chemical reactions can spontaneously arise, given enough time, and that's what we call metabolism. But this by itself has no "brain". It seems likely to me, as Freeman Dyson has written, that metabolism arose first and then DNA or it's predecessor molecule "took control" of the chemical soup. An unlikely sequence of events, but it could easily happen elsewhere in the universe, perhaps with much different actors (different kinds of molecules or other structures). And maybe they fly saucers :).

[Trogdor]

I totally believe that "we are not alone" and think it incredibly self-centered and egotistical of mankind to presume that we are unique in the cosmos. Given the vast size of the universe (not to mention multiverse), I envision millions if not billions of advanced lifeforms on other worlds, some far more advanced than we are.

However, I find it highly doubtful that any of those beings would visit us a) because of the sheer implausibility of FTL travel and the simple fact that it would take 30,000 years at light speed for us to even reach the center of our galaxy, and b) I can't imagine why an advanced civilization would care about us way out here in one of the outlier spiral arms of this rather average galaxy.

What I think will eventually occur is some exchange of knowledge via some type of sublight or close to lightspeed transmission of information. We will detect other civilizations, and they will detect us, and we and they will transmit data to one another, which may take 10's of 1000's of years to transmit but which will extend our knowledge immensely. But doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.


Ahh, but one thing, if the universe is billions and billions of years old, I am sure there are species of aliens that have found a way to travel faster than light. Remember, our own known history spans only 6,000 years or so. And I think the light speed barrier has been surpassed, cause think of it.....we once though the sound barrier would never be broken or that we'd never reach the moon. If the Bumblee Bee can surpass aerodynamics, we shall break the light barrier or someone out there shall do so. And with all the UFO sightings, the fact the government within our government will do anything to keep us from learning the truth, and the fact there are weird artifacts on both the moon and Mars, the aliens are already here.

And I have a strong feeling that we will learn the truth in my lifetime....and more often than not my feelings are correct.

[Ecstatic]

You're starting to sound like Carl Sagan. But that's a good thing.

I agree there's probably something out there, but it's probably quite different from life on earth. The ingredients of life (IMHO): A local increase in order (i.e. decrease in entropy) fueled by an abundant nearby energy source (e.g. the Sun). No problem with that happening somewhere else in the universe ! In our case the order is imposed by digital information (DNA) which regulates metabolism.

A complex, intertwining chain of chemical reactions can spontaneously arise, given enough time, and that's what we call metabolism. But this by itself has no "brain". It seems likely to me, as Freeman Dyson has written, that metabolism arose first and then DNA or it's predecessor molecule "took control" of the chemical soup. An unlikely sequence of events, but it could easily happen elsewhere in the universe, perhaps with much different actors (different kinds of molecules or other structures). And maybe they fly saucers :).

There are a few other key factors in the equation insofar as light as we know it goes: you need a terrestrial (stony) planetary mass (one which is large enough to sustain an atmosphere--likely leaving a Martian-sized planet out--yet not so large as to have excessive gravity nor be a gas giant) or a similar moon of a gas giant; within the optimal "comfort zone" of distance from its star (for a star the size of our sun, between 60 million and 150 million or so miles of the star, pending the size of the planet); not in a binary star system (gravitational forces would be prohibitive and orbits unstable); with a moon massive enough to influence tides; warm enough for liquid water; etc. Of course, life unlike ours may well evolve in quite different environments, and may even be based on a fundamental element other than carbon.

I've long suspected that, given the limits of Einsteinian physics, effective interstellar travel would be limited to stars within a few light-years of a planet; we're pretty well out in the spiral arm of the galaxy, with the nearest star (a binary system) being 4.5 light-years of Earth, but imagine being in a somewhat more densely populated part of the galaxy: not so densely populated that the stars collapse in on themselves in massive black holes as at the center of the galaxy, but close enough to be light-months apart. Interstellar travel then becomes feasible, if nonetheless still a very long-term proposition.

[Ecstatic]

Ahh, but one thing, if the universe is billions and billions of years old, I am sure there are species of aliens that have found a way to travel faster than light. Remember, our own known history spans only 6,000 years or so. And I think the light speed barrier has been surpassed, cause think of it.....we once though the sound barrier would never be broken or that we'd never reach the moon. If the Bumblee Bee can surpass aerodynamics, we shall break the light barrier or someone out there shall do so. And with all the UFO sightings, the fact the government within our government will do anything to keep us from learning the truth, and the fact there are weird artifacts on both the moon and Mars, the aliens are already here.

And I have a strong feeling that we will learn the truth in my lifetime....and more often than not my feelings are correct.

The problem is that the "light speed barrier" is not in any way akin to the speed of sound barrier; light speed is the universal constant, the limiting factor of the physical universe. How do you decelerate an infinite mass? As an object approaches light speed, its lenght decreases towards zero and its mass increases towards infinity. We've accelerated protons to within a tiny fraction of light speed (on the order of .01% iirc), but protons do not reach the velocity of photons; they are too massive.

Now, is there someway to bypass the light speed limitation? Perhaps hyperspace? Wormholes? Possibly; Einsteinian physics do not rule out such things, but the transition between states is extremely problematic, and the energy required virtually infinite. But even if a solution exists, I find it hard to conceive why such an advanced race elsewhere in the universe would be even remotely interested in us on Earth.

Or maybe they're just looking for hot tgirls....

[flombago]

It's true, Relativity theory does not preclude travel faster than the speed of light. To exceed the speed of light apparently requires an imaginary mass, by which I mean one proportional to i where i*i = -1. Tres bizarre, mais possible. But how to do it ? Perhaps you need a wormhole. It would be great to have one. Very handy because it would also allow you to travel back in time; simply transport to the vicinity of a massive object (neutron star or black hole), then buzz back. And if you think I know what I'm talking about, may I sell you a flying saucer, at a bargain price ? :)

[JeanClaude]

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but the so famous Speed of Light is a speculation.
What we, human people, think about it may be totally wrong. The Universe is unlimited and we only know a very limited part of it. We, human people, have based the theory of the Speed of Light only on observations. And our way to observe is very limited by our 5 senses and our tools/machineries/satelites/computers.

If there is an other civilisation in the Galaxy where we are currently living, they certainly think a different way than us, human people. They don't have a same approach of the Nature of the Universe. And, maybe for them, the Speed of the Light has a minimal importance. This postulate "We are 10,000 times 10,000 ways different from each other" should teach us some respect and humility. For that we currently know about the Universe can be false.

What we know about the Universe is basically wrong, because of the limits of our observations. Know that granted for sure, once and for all. Basing on this postulate "The Map is not the Territory", we are not sure that the Light has really a Speed. Knowing that, we know that we can't travel space like the Light.

There is a certainly a way we have not discovered yet. This way, this new hability of travelling the Universe may certainly destroy a big part of our Physics and AstroPhysics Sciences. Remember Galileo when he found out that Planet Earth was orbiting around the Sun? It would be a same revolution.

But, maybe, we, human people, are not ready to discover this way? Simply because of the fact we do not deserve it .......... yet ?!?!

[Trogdor]

The problem is that the "light speed barrier" is not in any way akin to the speed of sound barrier; light speed is the universal constant, the limiting factor of the physical universe. How do you decelerate an infinite mass? As an object approaches light speed, its lenght decreases towards zero and its mass increases towards infinity. We've accelerated protons to within a tiny fraction of light speed (on the order of .01% iirc), but protons do not reach the velocity of photons; they are too massive.

Now, is there someway to bypass the light speed limitation? Perhaps hyperspace? Wormholes? Possibly; Einsteinian physics do not rule out such things, but the transition between states is extremely problematic, and the energy required virtually infinite. But even if a solution exists, I find it hard to conceive why such an advanced race elsewhere in the universe would be even remotely interested in us on Earth.

Or maybe they're just looking for hot tgirls....

I am sure that some smart cookie alien out there can make Einstein look like a retarded kid in a room of bouncey balls. Once we make contact, which I feel is going to happen soon, that we call laws of the universe might turn out to be wrong. And seeing all these UFO's around here, I think the creatures flying them could give guys like Einstein a thing or two in science. Since I myself would have more faith in a highly advanced, civilized society from another world that has been around longer than us and managed intersteller travel than some old guys in lab coats over here...plus scientists of earth have 2 problems that bug me.

1: Established funding......it's a form of strangulation.....the nerds in the lab coats take the pay check and say "yes sir." and that's it. They are on too tight a leash in my opinion.

2: The most egotistic people in the world or NOT pro athleates, rock stars, hollywood divas, religious people, businessmen, nor even politicians.....it's scientists. Scientists will not be open to new, freash ideas or possibilites.... I know a few guys like that who won't even care to listen to some of the new ideas and theories out there. In fact, the Brookings report, the one that says discovering alien life or evidence of it will cause society to collapse, says scientists will be one of those most effected, since they might not be the masters of matter as they think they are.

Reason of interest for aliens to check out our neck of the cosmic woods:
Exploration, to learn, to see what is out there, and to see other forms of life.

Remember that bit in Star Trek.

~assumes Shatner voice~

To explore strange new worlds. To seek out new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no man has gone before

Just cause they are advanced, does not mean they are stagnent. If a world is discovered and the intelligent life is in a sorta stone age, I'd still wanna see it. Like Q said, "For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknown possibilities... of existence" That's the reason lil grey fellows and big-ass reptilians are out there zipping about in those vessels and checking us out.


Alot less dull than a museum or text book.

[Trogdor]

Sorry to disappoint you guys, but the so famous Speed of Light is a speculation.
What we, human people, think about it may be totally wrong. The Universe is unlimited and we only know a very limited part of it. We, human people, have based the theory of the Speed of Light only on observations. And our way to observe is very limited by our 5 senses and our tools/machineries/satelites/computers.

If there is an other civilisation in the Galaxy where we are currently living, they certainly think a different way than us, human people. They don't have a same approach of the Nature of the Universe. And, maybe for them, the Speed of the Light has a minimal importance. This postulate "We are 10,000 times 10,000 ways different from each other" should teach us some respect and humility. For that we currently know about the Universe can be false.

What we know about the Universe is basically wrong, because of the limits of our observations. Know that granted for sure, once and for all. Basing on this postulate "The Map is not the Territory", we are not sure that the Light has really a Speed. Knowing that, we know that we can't travel space like the Light.

There is a certainly a way we have not discovered yet. This way, this new hability of travelling the Universe may certainly destroy a big part of our Physics and AstroPhysics Sciences. Remember Galileo when he found out that Planet Earth was orbiting around the Sun? It would be a same revolution.

But, maybe, we, human people, are not ready to discover this way? Simply because of the fact we do not deserve it .......... yet ?!?!

I'm far from disappointed, I'm the opposite, actually :mrgreen:

Plus the authorities had Galilaeo arrested for his revolations.

I've been saying that as well. To assume that what claim to know is true, that we are the experts is a prime example of human arrogence. And I feel those lil creatures out there could put over over their knee and knock some sence into us. We're only natural feature on a mere grain of sand in a beach that's quite a big place, you know. The aliens we could encounter might see what our science and physics are like and laugh at us. They most likely have things that could make our most advanced stuff and science look like, as Tom Baker said, " prehistoric junk! "


But that last bit, I feel I am ready, I don't want the chance spoiled by some dumb clucks in power with their own agendas. ( We, as humanity on a whole deserve it, not our so-called 'leaders'. ) I want my future to be about seeing what is out there and learning things outside of what we'd call normal.......and not about simply working my ass off 40 hours a week, taxes and a 6 foot hole in the ground....since those 3 things won't be worth amount to anything in the cosmos, it's stagnation in its simplicity, and call me crazy, but life on Earth is boring....I'm sorry, but it is. I think man should have a better, more nobel and greater existence and herritage than the pitiful excuse of an existence it has now. :p

[flombago]

2: The most egotistic people in the world or NOT pro athleates, rock stars, hollywood divas, religious people, businessmen, nor even politicians.....it's scientists. Scientists will not be open to new, freash ideas or possibilites.... I know a few guys like that who won't even care to listen to some of the new ideas and theories out there.

Interesting POV for how the public views scientists. On a par with rock stars and athletes ? Wow. My scientist friends will be happy to hear that. But then, where are the groupies ?!

First of all, scientists are SUPPOSED to be open to new and fresh ideas. That's their job ! One should hope there is a selective process whereby the best scientists (i.e. those best at doing "their job" of discovering things) rise to the top, get the best positions, most funding, etc.

As for arrogance, you are right. The problem with science is that to actually do it requires many years of intense study and pushing onself to the frontier. That frontier is defined by the work of other scientists. If a "regular citizen" has a good idea, he/she may join the ranks of scientists. Read the history of Einstein. At first he was a patent office worker who could not win a job as a professor. But he shook the world and became a celebrated professor at Berlln and later at Princeton.

[syntax]

being a massive fan of John A Keel and Jacques Vallee, you will always find me over here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/

[Jordan]

Has anyone seen this? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324800,00.html It's a picture from mars that shows a figure, or rock formation.

[Trogdor]

Has anyone seen this? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324800,00.html It's a picture from mars that shows a figure, or rock formation.

Coast to Coast AM with George Noory posted that on the website the other day.

Surprised fox news even bothered to mention it.

[icarus2112]

Jordan, I saw that picture on the news too and immediately thought of this, 1967 picture from a home film of bigfoot. Is big foot a martian? ;)

[Jordan]

Jordan, I saw that picture on the news too and immediately thought of this, 1967 picture from a home film of bigfoot. Is big foot a martian? ;)

Oh wow, so maybe that pic is a Hoax? Isn't Bigfoot a myth? I also saw on Larry king this week, a whole town in TX saw what was definite UFO, and of course the govt is doing damage control.

[Ecstatic]

Here's what I found after running image enhancement....

[Mandy M]

I think there are billions of us who long for some alien overlord, or God, to come down and put an end to the misery that is industrial capitalism. Deep down even the most well off among us are profoundly alienated, and the rest of us look forward to nothing but a life of toil and despair. Its no wonder that the Bible and the National enquirer are such popular purchases.

I've seen very strange things in the sky at times, hovering lights that certainly are too low to be satellites, yet seem to not move, and I hope, I beg, please alien overlords, just come and put an end to this already...

I don't believe that any intelligent species would waste its time coming any where near us, what with all the crap we shoot into space, hell they can probably sense the bad vibes from where they are. :-(

But alas.... its back to reality.

Mt. St. Helens on the other hand is rumbling with a renewed frequency, and that could pose a very serious problem to me if it were to erupt in force on its Southern Flank.

Ah well, I'm gonna put my naked ass in bed with my sweetie and finish watching season 2 of Twin Peaks (glad they finally released the whole thing as a box set)

[Trogdor]

Oh wow, so maybe that pic is a Hoax? Isn't Bigfoot a myth? I also saw on Larry king this week, a whole town in TX saw what was definite UFO, and of course the govt is doing damage control.

The Martian rock-man in the picture is geniune, I been going over the picture and can pretty much deduce that whatever it is, it is actually there.

And the in Texas, that could be a UFO or Government using/testing their weapons/technology on the public.

[Trogdor]

I think there are billions of us who long for some alien overlord, or God, to come down and put an end to the misery that is industrial capitalism. Deep down even the most well off among us are profoundly alienated, and the rest of us look forward to nothing but a life of toil and despair. Its no wonder that the Bible and the National enquirer are such popular purchases.

I've seen very strange things in the sky at times, hovering lights that certainly are too low to be satellites, yet seem to not move, and I hope, I beg, please alien overlords, just come and put an end to this already...

I don't believe that any intelligent species would waste its time coming any where near us, what with all the crap we shoot into space, hell they can probably sense the bad vibes from where they are. :-(

But alas.... its back to reality.

Mt. St. Helens on the other hand is rumbling with a renewed frequency, and that could pose a very serious problem to me if it were to erupt in force on its Southern Flank.

Ah well, I'm gonna put my naked ass in bed with my sweetie and finish watching season 2 of Twin Peaks (glad they finally released the whole thing as a box set)



I beg to differ.....I'm getting fed up of people saying aliens avoid us cause we are evil/stupid. We are NOT evil and stupid, the various government and corporate leaders are the evils ones, not us. And if aliens are not interested, why are we contantly seeing UFO's, more government cover-ups, more people stepping foreward with the balls to finally talk about stuff they were sworn to secracy, and people having implants made of materials that actually move when trying to extract and can not even be identified?

I think that there is, what one could call "humanitarian aid" by the aliens to help us out. I believe we are destined for something greater, we just need to wake up and do something about it.

[ottorocket]

I think its just the sobering, depressing, reality that the odds are so small that other life forms would A) have the technology to travel here B) Know where we are in the universe C) Want to approach us without fear D) Have the timing exactly lined up to visit us at the height of mankind. Sure there might be life out there...but advanced life alone is mathmatically such a rarity whereby they can just zip over here and show us they exist, but we can't detect them with anything better than some amatuer perptually poor video equipment??

Its really more of us wanting to believe in something else...for our own existance to be answered and answers to the universe which makes us all very insignificant.

But i'll wait to see the next UFO vid

[Jordan]

The Martian rock-man in the picture is geniune, I been going over the picture and can pretty much deduce that whatever it is, it is actually there.

And the in Texas, that could be a UFO or Government using/testing their weapons/technology on the public.

Well at first the Govt said NO testing was done that day, then after almost everyone in the town started telling the tales, oops it seemed they WERE testing that night. I think I'd believe a whole town of different kind of people over a "statement" from a rep for the U.S.A.F.

[icarus2112]

I agree with Jordan that the military is lying to cover something up. Some statements from that area of Texas say they have been seeing strange objects for a few weeks, and recognized the F-16s that have been reported, but did not really recognize what the f-16s were chasing after.

Keep in mind that the SR-71 black bird jet that still holds the fastest and highest flying aircraft record was built mid 60's. That is an aircraft that is now out of service, maybe due to being obsolete? So weather UFOs from alien planets or the newest cutting edge of experimental aircraft, there is something the Govt. doesnt want us to know.

[Trogdor]

I think its just the sobering, depressing, reality that the odds are so small that other life forms would A) have the technology to travel here B) Know where we are in the universe C) Want to approach us without fear D) Have the timing exactly lined up to visit us at the height of mankind. Sure there might be life out there...but advanced life alone is mathmatically such a rarity whereby they can just zip over here and show us they exist, but we can't detect them with anything better than some amatuer perptually poor video equipment??

Its really more of us wanting to believe in something else...for our own existance to be answered and answers to the universe which makes us all very insignificant.

But i'll wait to see the next UFO vid

A: From seeing odd objects in the sky myself, I disagree. The aliens would make Einstein and Hawkins look like kindergaten flunkies.

B: From seeing so many said odd objects, and other people saying so as well, I think they have found us quite awhile ago, from before 'recorded' history I say.

C: Having space travel ability, a possibly vast knowledge of the cosmos, and probably having dealt with us for a long time, I'd say we are not that dangerous too them, especially when leading the feds on goose chases in the sky. :p

D: As mentioned, I feel they been dealing with us before for a long time. And we can 'detect' them cause of powers that be want to maintane the status quo......they get all the good stuff, while giving us the 'gift' of ignorent bliss. :p The amatuers are talking about it cause they are not governed by Brookings or the need-to-know mentalily.

Plus with more and more worlds being discovered, that just tacks another world that could be watching us and vice versa.

Rather than life, and intelligent life at that, being a rare item in the cosmos......I say pfffft.....I say there's more life, intelligent life, than we are even aware of.

[syntax]

To be perfectly honest, I shuddered when I saw this thread.

I am a self confessed jack of all trades and I have a fair amount of knowledge on a number of subjects....but this is one subject I can proudly say I am highly proficient at.

I gave up on the extra-terrestrial hypothesis about 10 years ago when I was 16, after spending my entire youth reading books on the subject only to find myself coming to dead ends over and over.

Unlike many others, I firmly believed video footage was far from the be all and end all of evidence....there are far too many factors involved. So I avoid youtube at all costs. I prefer to spend my days trawling through texts that predate the modern mediums of popular culture.

If one did so, you would soon realise that the 'grey' aliens we have come to associate with ET's have only existed since Whitely Streiber's "Communion" was released. Before 1977, the most common close encounter of the second and third kind documented were 'Human' occupants. popular culture and preconception have ruined the scientific study attached to the phenomenon....and so, I hastily abandoned it too.

I have uploaded an interview by the great Jacques Vallee, who along with Keyhoe, Hynek and Keel is considered the foremost aspiring thinker on the phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallee

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=398UR1WN

(audio interview - Coast to Coast)

You can hear his pain as he was also forced to abandon the field due to the stigma that youtube, 'greys', Area 51 and Roswell have done to the phenomenon.

I have exhausted my library of texts (about 200 or so UFO non fiction texts), and from all of it have only really ever found two standout books that I would HIGHLY recommend people to read:

1. OPERATION TROJAN HORSE - John A Keel
2. DAIMONIC REALITY - Patrick Harpur (http://www.gnostics.com/review4-99.html)

I have also written a small document on the problems associated with witnesses and their effect on popular culture:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=113955&st=0&p=2040367&#entry2040367

Enjoy!

[Trogdor]

Speaking of Coast, I've been listening to some older stories, about a yar old, and been listening to a series of 10 minute clips regarding the moon from early 2007.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=objects+on+the+moon
Awesome stuff.

Only large gas bag in the solar system: :arrow: Nasa.....
I love it! :mrgreen:

To be able to get my hands on that anti-grav vessel on the moon.

Also, I wish Hyperdiamensional physics would be looked upon in a better light and taken seriously.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=+Hyperdimensional+Hexagon&search=Search
Mainstream science needs a kick in its complacentcy. :p