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View Full Version : Escorts & Models: The Great TS Debate


Jhellis978
10-31-2005, 01:24 AM
In starting this thread, I am attempting to tackle a "hot button" issue among the transgendered community. Much like the abortion debate in our national community, everyone has a definite opinion on the issue, but many are afraid to voice their thoughts. Those that do, often lack the knowledge and understanding to maintain an intelligent debate and talks soon turn to shouts and nothing is gained. It is my hope that this thread will spur intelligent talk on an issue very real to transsexuals and those who love them.

Allow me to preface this post by saying, I am not the greatest wordsmith, but I hope to compose thoughts in a manner to treat each person with the respect and kindness they deserve as a human being. Inevitably, many of you reading this post have engaged in professions I will adress in my my writing. I do not seek to judge; everyone is equal in my eyes.

With that said, let the debate beign.

Anyone who knows anything about the transgendered community, realizes that, right or wrong, the images on the Internet and on TV talk shows, form the foundation for understanding of the transgendered community among the general population of our nation and planet I realize, as do many on this board, that the images on the Internet and on TV, represent only one small niche of the transgendered community. The question remains, "Who's to blame for this distorted portrayal of the ts community?"

Men?

TS's?

Society in general?

I've had discussions with a couple of lovely ladies on this board about this issue and I've come to the conclusion that it's a combination of all three.

In order to adequately address the issue, we must directly examine the very impetus of the "business." Many ts's who enter the world of adult entertainment, whether it be escorting, "modeling", "film production", do so because they feel they have been shunned by the larger American community, charging employment discrimination. While I agree that many employers discriminate against transgendered individuals, forcing many into escorting, I do believe that it is partly self chosen.

Let's totally remove morality from the equation. We're not going to debate whether or not escorting is right or wrong, rather necessity vs. motivation.

I've never dated nor hired an escort, but I have a few friends in the business. As you might expect, they come from a variety of backgrounds.

One, comes from a wealthy, Caucasion family in the Northeast. She is college educated, ambitious and motivated. Her family has offered her material and emotional support throughout her transition. To her, escorting is a choice--one that she is not proud of, but a choice nonetheless. Like smoking, escorting becomes addictive, with money being the nicotene. Imagine, setting your own hours, not having a boss and pulling in over 2 grand a day.

I have another escort friend from a lower income Hispanic family. She dropped out of school in the 10th grade and all her personal records still show her as male. Obviously, at this point in her life, she is not really an attractive hire to any business except for possibly food service. As the ladies on here will tell you, transition is a very expensive process--one that cannot be supported on a mininum wage salary. To her, escorting is a means to an end.

We live in a free market, captialistic society that runs on the basic principle of supply and demand. In essence, the more demand for a product, the higher the output. Obviously, there are a ton of men throwing money into the business, because everyday a new site or ts escort comes onto the market.

As previously noted, we are not debating the moral implications of the adult entertainment industry. For the record, I have no problem with the business, I've actually bailed one of my escort friends out of jail when she was busted by the cops, but we do need to examine the larger social ramifications engendered by the adult entertainment industry within the transgendered community.

Right or wrong, the American people form their opinions about the transgendered community, based on empirical evidence--what they see, touch and feel, not on an abstract analysis of "why" someone engages in a particular trade. If all they see is big breasted, foul talking, nymphs, they will assume all ts women are like that and put up barriers to accepting them into society (e.g. workplace, school, family circles, etc.).

As you see, it's a large, messy circle, a "damned if you, damned if you don't" type of situation. The question now, how do we change it?

A percentage of the money generated from the transsexual adult entertainment industry should be put back in the community in the form of scholarship funds, legal defense funds, advocacy groups and PAC's (political action commitee). Afterall, if you don't look after one or another, who will look after you?

Imagine, being able to send a young transgendered to college on money gleaned from trassexual movie stars donating money to a scholarship fund. Imagine a political lobbying firm, created by escorts and models uniting, donating a part of their earnings to have a voice in Washington. Imagine, being able to fight back against men like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Rush Limbaugh and the entire Republican Party and conservative movement. It's possible.

Escorts and models are not a problem, they are a solution to the end of ignorance, hate and poltical injustice.

Jhellis978
10-31-2005, 10:01 PM
Originally, I thought this post would draw a lot of response, either from those agreed or disgreed.

So far, the only response has been limited to some remarks in a completly different thread.

I'm sure someone has something to say about these issues. Don't be shy.

TrinityBlue
11-01-2005, 02:15 PM
http://www.tgirltalk.com/board/platinum/viewtopic.php?t=325


Ok that link contains my current views on modeling and escorting in realtion to another thread that was started...I tend to go off on a tandem every know and then...

I think your ideas about society bringing things mainstream and accepting certain things consider morally incorrect is interesting..But where is the moral balance...Where is the ying vs yang to it all?...I think by allowing certain things to slip further and further out of the taboo and into mainstream culture sets off an age old debate of good vs evil...Even in the smallest sense...It has always been said in many cultures that to peacefully co exist in this world we need that healthy balance...What will we deem to be acceptable next...Murder,Rape,Pillage but if only for the good of another...Wait we already do that...Its called war...I think the lines of morality are blurred enough that we dont need to be making changes glorifying things that for ages our socite

y has deemed taboo...

Ok I have alot more to say on this but seems my thoughts are a little jumbled before the first pot of Java today...And the leftovers of Sunday night are still kicking me in my hiney....

I was first place in public speaking and debate throughout school but was horrible at essay writing...lol...I think the mjority of my posts prove that...I much better at speaking whats on my mind then writing it

Its too bad this forum doesnt have voice posting...lol...I could talk your ear off till the cows come home but for now Ill leave it at this..
:lol:

lar9149
11-02-2005, 05:05 PM
This topic is actually right in its views. In the majority of public issues like this, generally everyone involved are too blame. In this case, society, escorts, and the men.

Right it is a viscious cycle. Society don't accept tgirls so tgirls can't go get good jobs. Than a lot become escorts, porn stars, etc. Than society sees this and become even more negative towards the ts community. So even more tgirls go out and escort. As more tgirls escort, this allows more men to find them in places near them. Creating a higher demands means more money and, therefore, more tgirls escort again. And creating more escorts (more supply) creates more accessability among men.

So I think you get the point. In the end, this cycle continues and things get worst. But I think the solution is perfect. We need to take responsiblity and maybe setup some donation fund for tgirls. Also education to let those new tgirls that escorting is not the only way. Let them know about these scholarships that we can make especially for tgirls. I think not as many as can should get involved, the porn industry is a good place to start and I think some of them are making efforts to help.

Time and patience that is all we have.


I know this topic has received much response. Unfortunately less people visit tgirltalk.com. Try posting this topic at:

www.hungangels.com

Probably get more attention there.

Jhellis978
11-02-2005, 11:29 PM
Yeah, I posted on the "other site" as well, but no only got one response there .

The "Other Site" seems to be full of "models" and escorts and I am interested in hearing their thoughts on the issue. I'm not trying to judge anyone; I just want to see how different people respond to my ideas.

If Ts's and their admirers don't look out for one another, then who will?

lar9149
11-03-2005, 04:33 PM
I totally agree with you man. What can I say? Perhaps, many here are just looking for escorts and stuff and not really interested in this stuff. Additionally, I think many topics like this stirred up shit in the past. Sometimes people don't like to talk about what really matters because it causes shit and hurts and offends people.

But tell me this, if African-Americans in the past thought that way, do you think they would be were they are today? No, they would still be slaves and at the bottom of the barrel. They stirred up shit and because if that, they are free. So if we want to sit back and accept things as there are, then they will always be that way. Otherwise, lets keep stirring up shit :)

Jhellis978
11-03-2005, 10:01 PM
I totally agree with you man. What can I say? Perhaps, many here are just looking for escorts and stuff and not really interested in this stuff. Additionally, I think many topics like this stirred up shit in the past. Sometimes people don't like to talk about what really matters because it causes shit and hurts and offends people.

But tell me this, if African-Americans in the past thought that way, do you think they would be were they are today? No, they would still be slaves and at the bottom of the barrel. They stirred up shit and because if that, they are free. So if we want to sit back and accept things as there are, then they will always be that way. Otherwise, lets keep stirring up shit :)

Couldn't have said it any better....same can be said for women...if it hadn't been for Senacca Falls, they would still be nothing more than baby factories.

Wynter Skye
11-03-2005, 11:59 PM
Maybe you didn't get the response you were looking for because you already answered it in your original post. Men/TS/and society at large are to blame. Most people can only take but so much rejection. If a person is rejected by a men, women, boys, girls, family and the media at large for who they are They're already in a bad place. Then when trying to get a job which everyone needs in our society, they are shunned for who they are. Even the most mundane jobs that require absolutely no skill to speak of will not hire a tg not only for their personal views if any but for the image of their company. If there is anything that time has taught us it is that desperation yields results. If a person cannot get money or respect for doing what is right, why not do what's wrong if it will yield the ultimate result of money. Not to get rich but to live. We've already thrown a few morals away with rejection and isolation and when it comes down to it, we live in a supply and demand society. So as long as you have closet cases who berate tgirls openly during the day and get their rocks off at night. You will have the tgirls that will happily oblige them for the right amount. Once this trend starts, younger tg's don't even try to go down the right path often. They see what's out there and why buck against the grain if you can make a living doing what every other tg you know is doing.

What they don't see unfortunately is the staggering amount of older tg's addicted to every drug known to man or the staggering numbers of HIV/AIDS and other STD's that afflict so many. It's a hard cycle to break if not impossible.

If one were to relate it to the black struggle, while there are always some who will do all they can to progress further, like you have in the tg community you also have those short sighted individuals who can only see the "right now" or those who just don't care. When black men couldn't get respectable jobs, some resorted to crime out of neccessity. While a great many were trying to uplift the group, others in their need for self preservation created problems that grew with their children and grandchildren even to evolve into a plague in urban areas and with an entire race of people now.

I say this to say that while some may appear apathetic, there are others who will do all in their power to make a change but when someone goes without for so long, they will do what they feel they have to putting right and wrong on the back burners. Equality in the future does not always look as good as food today or rent next month.

XXX
11-04-2005, 12:17 AM
This topic is actually right in its views. In the majority of public issues like this, generally everyone involved are too blame. In this case, society, escorts, and the men.

Right it is a viscious cycle. Society don't accept tgirls so tgirls can't go get good jobs. Than a lot become escorts, porn stars, etc. Than society sees this and become even more negative towards the ts community. So even more tgirls go out and escort. As more tgirls escort, this allows more men to find them in places near them. Creating a higher demands means more money and, therefore, more tgirls escort again. And creating more escorts (more supply) creates more accessability among men.

So I think you get the point. In the end, this cycle continues and things get worst. But I think the solution is perfect. We need to take responsiblity and maybe setup some donation fund for tgirls. Also education to let those new tgirls that escorting is not the only way. Let them know about these scholarships that we can make especially for tgirls. I think not as many as can should get involved, the porn industry is a good place to start and I think some of them are making efforts to help.

Time and patience that is all we have.


I know this topic has received much response. Unfortunately less people visit tgirltalk.com. Try posting this topic at:

www.hungangels.com

Probably get more attention there.

Mods delete this,why the fuck would you advetise that shitty site all they do is flame people!!!

lar9149
11-04-2005, 03:19 PM
Yea Jaysin you are right because companies figure if you hire a tgirl (ones that people will know are a tgirl), it may decrease sales, scare away customers, ect. The law says that can't discriminate againdy gays, but if they hire a gay person, a gay person for the most part (not all of them), lookd like anyone else. You often can't look at a gay person and say "hes gay." Yet people often can just look at a tgirl and just know. Again society is part of the problem here.

The ones that perhaps don't have this problem are the passable tgirls. But often to be passable, requires a lot of surgery and money for most I think (some may have it more naturally). Will without a good job they can't get the money so may have to resort to escorting to get the money. But by the time they become passable and perhaps can get a good job because of that, they may think "fuck it" I am making all this non-taxable money so why should I stop?

The key there is non-taxable money. Its good to make a six figure income, but once you are taxed, you think "god dam fucking government." They are taking all this money from me and the government is still in tons of debt. What the fuck are they doing? They are probably going to these websites and getting tgirl escorts I bet and that is why we are in debt. I mean I could easily imagine George Bush doing that. Look at his name "Bush."

But in anycase, six figure income that is not taxed, they are basically making equivalent to high income doctors and lawyers because of that, maybe even more. I mean with a six figure income you are taxed 40 to 50% so a non-taxed person is making twice that amount in equivalent terms. Hack maybe the government should make prostitution legal so they could get taxes off them.