Do heterosexual men ever change gender?

[thirsty_wolf]

I wonder if heterosexual men are likely to change gender, my thoughts are that the % would be quite low, but I have not done any research. I guess many people in this forum would have a much better idea. It not important but just an interesting question ...

hope it raises good discussion...

Thirsty

[TSMorena35]

Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation are two different issues.
Sexual identity: is the sex with which a person identifies, or is identified.
Sexual orientation: refers to the sex or gender of people who are the focus of a person's amorous or erotic desires, fantasies, and spontaneous feelings, the gender(s) toward which one is primarily "oriented".

A Gay male may "identify" himself as a Gay, but he still sees himself as a MALE.

[roseofsapphire]

Before Yahoo's Private Chats went away there were lots of rooms for TGirls for Girls or TGirls for TGirls. As Morena said, Gender and Sexuality are seperate beasts.

Personally, I consider myself a lesbian, not a "hetero man that has become a woman".

[Harajuku Tgirl]

...

[Arianna]

Thank you Morena, Rose, and Harajuku for putting to rest the misconception that gender identity and sexuality are one in the same. You all make those very valid points, that the majority of people tend to overlook and ignore. My true gender identity was always clear to me, long before I had experienced my own sexuality. But when my dad asked me, at about age 9, "What are you? A faggot?!" (Thanks for being so understanding and sensitive, dad. NOT!), the first thought that came into my then-confused mind was, "Shit. That's a good question!"; because I knew that "faggots" were basically "men who kissed other men". But since I had no previous experience with that, I had nothing to base a reply on. All the signs were there that I was not like the other boys that I went to school with. Kids can be cruel, and let me know on no uncertain terms that I was "acting like a queer". Again, I understood on some level that this would imply I had someone to be queer with. But since my first kiss was with a girl, I was under the false impression that I was out of the woods on that topic. But, no; I soon realized that I was also curious about kissing boys as well. So I was right back at square 1 again. Then I heard about a little thing called being bi-sexual. It didn't neccessarily clear up my gender issues, but I sure as hell seemed to fit that profile. Success! Now all I had to do was figure why I didn't grow any boobies when all the other girls did, and why "God" had given me this little problem. I had heard of men getting a "sex-change operation", and that seemed like a plan. Well, maybe to me it did; but not to my mom and dad. I asked them, with genuine curiousity, "What's that?" They both essentially cringed. Anyone picking up on the fact that my family was not supportive about this issue? So, yeah, I was handed a one-way ticket to the closet in the household I grew up in.

It was after a some years of experimentation, turmoil, pain, and confusion that I finally decided in my mid-20's to, at least intellectually if not physically, "shit or get off the pot" in my personal life with friends and my then-gf. I came out, and watched more than half the people in my life make tracks. But I felt better, and the friends I had who remained became closer. So, hot damn. I was cool w/ it all, accepted it, and so did a handful of people that I cared about and respected. It only took me a fucking decade more to decide that living part time was just not enough. Bad timing tho, because I was also about to begin a tattoo apprenticeship. It took quite a while to find this situation, so I said to myself, "Get this under your belt, bite the bullet for a while, and wait just a bit longer." That was almost two years ago, when my formal tattooing education was finalized and I began looking very seriously into transitioning. Is anyone still awake? :wink:

The past year has been a blur, but a good blur. My beard is almost all lasered away, I finally found a doctor and a good clinic that I felt I could trust, and I have just begun hrt. By early next year, hopefully Jan or Feb, I will have moved back to the Sunshine State. It's then and there that I will do a legal name change, etc. and FINALLY be fulltime. I would say that I am currently spending about 75% of time as a female, and the rest in "boy-mode" (work, bank, dmv, etc.) Ok. I'm done putting you all to sleep. If you actually read all of this, thanks. :)

Now, what was the question? :wink:

[thirsty_wolf]

Thanks Ariana..your story is so interesting. I m glad you are finding happiness .

Thirsty

[Harajuku Tgirl]

...

[Arianna]

Arianna, I read your whole writing. I completely understand where youre coming from and could relate even though I started early in my transitioning. I have friends who were late figuring themselves out. Just hold on and never look back. Your happiness is what matters..Life is what you make out of it! More power to you gurlie!!

~Kisses.

HTG Thank you, sweetie. You are truely an awesome combo of beauty, brains, and class. Love ya! :)

[Ecstatic]

Wonderful replies, all. I've engaged in this discussion so many times on several forums and in person with people. With some people, a light goes off that you can almost see when you clarify the difference between sexual orientation and gender identification, but with others you can talk till you're blue in the face and they just won't get it.

Arianna, thanks for sharing your story in detail. I certainly was awake for all of it. Good luck with your next steps in your transition.

[Arianna]

Arianna, thanks for sharing your story in detail. I certainly was awake for all of it. Good luck with your next steps in your transition. Thank you, Ecstatic. And I must say that, of all the men here, your comments are some of my favorites. I always enjoy reading them.

[Ecstatic]

ah..gee...now you've gone and made me blush, Arianna! :oops:

As I would say to Harajuku, domo arigato! That means a lot to me.

[Harajuku Tgirl]

...

if the guy was a true heterosexual at the first place then no he would not change gender im sure that is common sense :? if he was a married a closet tv?cd?mostlikely % of them would change but they either remain as a lesbian tgirls but most are bisexuals anyway...its what youre genes say what gender you should be no matter what sexual preference you like,most people would know by a young age im sure what they want to be and what they like sexually 8)

[MsDazzler]

I read somewhere "gendersexual". LOL

[Arianna]

Is it really so important to even label anything or anyone; other than for other people's convenience? I think that I am declaring my own label as "Arianna-sexuality". I've been w/ men, women, M2F TS's; and have topped, bottomed, and been versatile w/ the same partner. I haven't been with a F2M TS, but I never say never. Up until last Feb, it had been quite some time since I'd been with a GG. And although it wasn't so amazing, it wasn't exactly traumatizing either. Although you can say that makes me "bi", I still look at everyone on an individual basis. I cross those bridges when I get to them.

Now, I could say that I GENERALLY like to be be a bottom with a guy, and that I feel more romantic w/ men. But, honestly, I'd rather get topped by Linda Evangelista wearing a strap-on ANY DAY, than even THINK about getting topped by DICK Cheney. :roll: He's extremely unappealing. And Linda? She is just one HOT MAMA. :) BUT, Martha Stewart? Well, she can cook me a meal and clean my house anytime; but THAT bitch is just foul-looking. :lol:

[MsDazzler]

Is it really so important to even label anything or anyone; other than for other people's convenience? I think that I am declaring my own label as "Arianna-sexuality". I've been w/ men, women, M2F TS's; and have topped, bottomed, and been versatile w/ the same partner. I haven't been with a F2M TS, but I never say never. Up until last Feb, it had been quite some time since I'd been with a GG. And although it wasn't so amazing, it wasn't exactly traumatizing either. Although you can say that makes me "bi", I still look at everyone on an individual basis. I cross those bridges when I get to them.

Now, I could say that I GENERALLY like to be be a bottom with a guy, and that I feel more romantic w/ men. But, honestly, I'd rather get topped by Linda Evangelista wearing a strap-on ANY DAY, than even THINK about getting topped by DICK Cheney. :roll: He's extremely unappealing. And Linda? She is just one HOT MAMA. :) BUT, Martha Stewart? Well, she can cook me a meal and clean my house anytime; but THAT bitch is just foul-looking. :lol:

I understand your senitments, exactly. however, most surveys or dating sites ask you to identify yourself as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual (straight, gay, lesbian, transgender not withstanding). So, you can't check the box for "Arianna-sexuality". :(

For those people who deride labels and classifications, such is the way of life and you have to deal with it. Labels are how we define the world and be able to make sense of it. If you shopped in a grocery store and there was no label on a can, you would question your purchase of it, no?

If you have ever read an article WHAT'S IN A NAME , the author makes lots and lots of valid points. A name, in itself, is a label of who you are and how other people should call you. Names carry powerful connotations, for instance, if you are named Grace compared to Zelda, you will garner far more interest and positive assumptions about your personality (i.e., you being graceful).

Anyway, my point was being, in the transgender community and straight men who fall into it, they are afraid or insist that labels are ridiculous. But what they really are doing is hiding their heads in the sand.

Have you noticed truly comfortable gay people have no problems with calling themselves gay? Same goes for straight men who are comfortable. Labels may be narrow, but again, it is the way of the world.

Straight men who dont want to be labeled as bisexual or such are showing disrespect to Tgirls. Also Tgirls want acceptance (it is one of their greatest desires) and validation, so they don't want to alienate straight men by insisting on labeling them contrary to what the straight men think of themselves. So they say labels are stupid and unncessary, but what they really are doing is just propagarating the charade and the ostrich-in-the-sand belief.

[Arianna]

I understand your senitments, exactly. however, most surveys or dating sites ask you to identify yourself as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual (straight, gay, lesbian, transgender not withstanding). So, you can't check the box for "Arianna-sexuality". :(

For those people who deride labels and classifications, such is the way of life and you have to deal with it. Labels are how we define the world and be able to make sense of it. If you shopped in a grocery store and there was no label on a can, you would question your purchase of it, no?

If you have ever read an article WHAT'S IN A NAME , the author makes lots and lots of valid points. A name, in itself, is a label of who you are and how other people should call you. Names carry powerful connotations, for instance, if you are named Grace compared to Zelda, you will garner far more interest and positive assumptions about your personality (i.e., you being graceful).

Anyway, my point was being, in the transgender community and straight men who fall into it, they are afraid or insist that labels are ridiculous. But what they really are doing is hiding their heads in the sand.

Have you noticed truly comfortable gay people have no problems with calling themselves gay? Same goes for straight men who are comfortable. Labels may be narrow, but again, it is the way of the world.

Straight men who dont want to be labeled as bisexual or such are showing disrespect to Tgirls. Also Tgirls want acceptance (it is one of their greatest desires) and validation, so they don't want to alienate straight men by insisting on labeling them contrary to what the straight men think of themselves. So they say labels are stupid and unncessary, but what they really are doing is just propagarating the charade and the ostrich-in-the-sand belief.

All valid points. Too bad that these boys all get so worried that somone is going to label them gay or bi. But as you pointed out, they are the in the minority on making it an issue. Gays, bi's, gg's, and TS's usually don't let that stuff bother them as much, if at all. Personally, I want a faithful man. Stepping out on me w/ another man, woman, or TS are ALL big no-no's. But it would be optimal to be with someone who has proclivity for my gender; M2F pre-op. In the end, I'd rather be w/ a man who knows what he wants than a confused, insecure boy who only THINKS he's a man. If you take being called a "homo" so seriously, maybe you are. It's probably only gonna be the other insecure guys who would really care what you are anyway.
As far as a world that tends to lean on labels, it's a shame that people seem to want to compromise accuracy for convenience. But that's not going to force me to pigeon-hole myself. Obviously the typical online profile is behind the times, if you don't even have the option to call yourself TG. MySpace won't even let you leave the gender part of your profile unanswered! So yeah, we must learn to navigate our way through a world of narrow-minded nonsense, for the people who can't be bothered to see the world as anything but black and white. But we, the TS's have made our lives what we wanted, right? We dared to think outside the box. Maybe someday, that won't seem like a big deal. When I was younger, the social climate was a far less accepting and understanding one. I have a gay male friend who said that being gay is the "new vanilla". Maybe in the bigger cities; but in rural America, old-fashioned "vanilla" is a way of life. People still believe that "GLBT" are all one "problem", and might as well be satanism.

[hhat]

I tend to think that labels are a necessary part of life as you said...that you need them to classify and begin to break things down. The problem most people have is that they get a bit mentally lazy...a label is like a Key in biology...its one step in the process of determining an identity but only a little bit of it. In the end as all people are constantly changing, and as all knowledge in inherintly flawed if you forget that all your going to be able to do is get a rough picture via those labels and your going to apply that rough picture as an exact tool. Which is to say "it just ain't gonna work fella".

However most people like the security of thinking they really understand, instead of realising that just about everything is pretty complex and you have to make decisions that are naturally flawed and never truely right. I tend to find that those who use a checkbox system to figure out other people are insecure about thinking "they aren't doing the right thing", as opposed to owning there decisions.

Clear as mud. ;)